We were never in a boom, this country has sustained steady growth upto this recession. And if the banks were still in the hands of the tories we would be in a right mess.

Coal is just the tip of the iceberg with what the tories did to industry in this country and there still is enough coal under our soil that could have been economically mined had it not been for two absolute idiots that loved to see their faces on the front pages and on the tv trying to become historical figures. Well they have both on a par with Hitler. The reason it is not economical now is all the sites have been built on and it would take multi billions to clear and start a fresh. As for the bottom draw who the hell has been keeping our banks afloat and where do you think these trillions have come from to do this.

Call it what you want, they ed it up the wall.







Course it was. Maggie shut the pits and put thousands on the dole just because she wanted fame. It all makes sense now.



Gordon Brown in fairness had no option but to mortgage our grandkids up to the hilt otherwise we'd be in a finacial meltdown. Thats not his fault, nor is it Maggies, but dont let that dilute your hatred for her.



For the record I dont care for either party for various, neither look after basic socialist principles properly in my opinion but I'm looking at what they've done over the last 12 years and they have wasted a great opportunity by overspending in wrong areas, hammered the working man, and creating huge quangos in the civil service which wastes billions. I've not even got onto law and order.



But if you think they've been a complete success and still want to blame Maggie then fair enough. Personally I think they've made a right pigs ear out of it.

Its democracy and greed that is at the heart of the countries problems. Not saying democracy is a bad thing of course.



The hard decisions don't get made because they are usually unpopular and lose votes. Could you imagine government putting aside 10's of billions of sterling for a rainy day when public servants are under paid ? The countries booming and we save for a rainy day, instead of spending more money on public services and the bottomless pit of good deeds that need sorting. The government would have been ridiculed in that situation too, with The Sun (who cares really) declaring its allegience to Tories earlier

.

Greed is a big problem nowadays and will always fuel situations we face at the moment.

Interesting read is a book by John Galbraith called The Big Crash 1929 - his summary was interesting going from memory since I read the book 12 or so months ago. Basically apart from being able to give everyone a Chrystal ball to see the future of what their actions would do, there was nothing much that could be done to stop the biggest financial collapse in history even with what people know now. Its not a situation where you think ok 6 years of boom so better save a few quid for next few years of bust, as there is no time table. Interesting book for those interested.

Also greed and big profits fuel more greed and big profits. Again the top guys actions in the banks that collapsed would have been repeated by others too. Share holders would be demanding their replacement for the cautious ones that say "hold up, what about around the corner", when the profits on paper are down drastically because of preparing for the end of the road.



My first memory of Thatch was when she abolished free milk at schools

Thats kind of what the 80's where like. All I remember of 80's was unemployment.

She sold everything she could off, including our energy reserves (cheaply, in the dash for Gas) so now we are dependent on foreign energy. All to pay out benefits for record high unemployment figures.

She gave the signal to the Argies to invade the Malvinas by her defence cuts (so we could pay for American nuclear bases here), thus getting us involved in a war that took limelight away from how the country was doing and got her another term in office. Not wishing to compare her to Hitler but he also went down this line when Germany was in the poop. Can't beat a good old war to get the countries morale up in being patriotic. Brave soldiers injured and lost their lives of course.

The Poll Tax - the worst tax in history



I will give her credit on some things like privatising companies which helped stop strikes nowadays, and bringing Unions down a few pegs, but the rest.......

Yes. 100%, and we've done it for centuries.



But not Gordon. On no.



He took over a strong growing economy and not only did he spend all that came his way, he increased our national debt to record levels in a period of huge growth, and also sold half of our centuries old gold reserves at rock bottoms rates.

I am not wholly defending the guy or Blair tbh. I just find it difficult to see a timetable for when good times starts and ends. Other countries and companies seem to be the same. When things are too good to be true and u get caught up in it - lets face it the number of families that over spent on their mortgages etc thought same thing.

Always easier after the event. Tories I am sure would have done similar thing. People don't want to see money used cautiously when times are good, but only when times are bad and they look back at what should have been done. The expenses row highlights this - it would have barely registered in the boom period, but now most are suffering its maginified and highlights what a lot of poltitians are like - Tory or Labour.

I dont just have a hatred of Maggie. I hate Scargill too. I hate everyone of those so called elected MP's that dont give two hoots about the working man and is only (like I said) interested in seeing their faces on the TV and on the front pages. The reason I have a hated of the tories is because I watched my own familly nearly come to an end. Listened to my mum and dad (yes dad ) arguing and then crying because they didn't know where we were going to find money and food. Saw mates and their families begging and borrowing to keep a crust on the table. God knows how many people have died in later years because of the stress caused by the whole affair. Ask yourself this what sort of state were our hospitals and schools in under the toerags. I tell you they were apauling because they wanted rid of public services and after what they did to the miners they thought they could do it to the rest of the country. Spending on hospitals and schools was being cut left right and centre. Even the police after their "heroics" during the miners strike were feeling the pinch. Every public service under the tories was being hit. Public spending cuts should have been their election cry because thats really all they did. In america at the moment in this recession people are putting food and a good time before their health because they cant afford the insurance. Is that what you want in this country? There are lots of things I dont like about this government but I certainly would never vote for a party that puts business votes over schools and hospitals.

I don't buy the Sun



I read the sports page at work (one of the better football papers)



Political content? I bet Jordan was thinking up another rape claim when she saw she wasn't on the front page this morning.



Ask this question on a site based in





LeeeighLeeeigh i'll keep my eye open for the book you mention, although i'm not really into politics i do like to read the occasional book on the subject. The way i see it no matter who get into power we're going to get dry bummed by the goverment so it is a case of voting for the lesser of the two evils. Although it would be interesting to see what a coalition governmant involving Labour and the lib dems could acheave.

I'd agree with most of that TVB, but its shouldn't dilute the pigs ear GB has created by acting like a kid in a sweet shop.



Neither me nor thee are accountants, but I'd expect the chancellor to know that selling half our gold at $275/oz and either spending it or buying euros with it wasnt the best idea in the world.



Just 6 years later gold now at over $1000oz and the euro at less than a quid.



For a clever bloke, thats incompetant and unsustainable and was clear to see to those who bothered taking a moment tho think about it. He's had a go at the banks for their lending practices but his spending spree was far more irresponsible.



One of the reasons why our economic strength is goosed is becuase the likes of Germany and France have over 10 times our gold reserves.



If you were China or India, who would you trade and invest with? Them or us?



The only saving grace is when the banks start to make money again then what he paid to bail them out will be small change and the Treasury will reap many of the rewards. Just as well saying it's a couple of trillion in the red.



No doubt when the Tories get in and announce huge public spending cuts they'll be seen as the devil reincarnated. But GB has built a debt up that will take 20 years to pay off, how many will remember that?

How much did we lose with Lamont as Chancellor when he tried to prop up the pound? He was actually buying our own currency in a desparate attempt to keep sterling at a unrealistic rate.

Ye but no but





He did this and she did that is not a defence. Its playground arguement.





Theres a history of mistakes from all sides, it still doesn't make it right.

Lets get it right. The Tories abolished Miras and the Married Couples Allowance in 1984. Labour just didnt change it.

And why we are on about them lets not forget that they also abolished The Pits, Heavy engineering, The Car Industry and Council House Building, I could go on but that should be enough for now,

Look at it this way in 1977 we had 2 working pits churning out coal at record levels, 2 main engineering plants, a large electrical wiring works, 2 mills, all together employing collectivelly about 6500 people, in 1997 all the above had gone, replaced by???? a couple of underused run down job 'parks'.

Its not got much better since but its hard to stop the rot once its set in.



Yes Labour under Brown doesnt look good but Cameron.... come on he's a typical no chin Conservative hardly a dynamic alternative and his backroom team will be... well theres...well.... all faceless little grey men busy filling in Expenses slips.



I will never ever vote Tory but to be honest Labour isnt actually grabbing my imagination for a vote either. It always seems that once a government seems to go downhill it takes the 'lot' following it 10 years to sort the other lots mess out.



Politics and religious arguments dont you just love em....